Interview with Roy Lantz, author of "Never Beat the Boss at Horseshoes..."

Irene: Roy, you recently authored an interesting bookwas only a glitch on my life's radar screen because I
called "Never Beat the Boss at Horseshoes" - a bookknew what my life's purpose was.Irene: Being a
that is supposed to help us recognize that life is amotivational speaker, you have traveled the world
game. Tell us a little more insight into yourgiving seminars and keynote speeches about
concept.Roy: Remember how, as a child, you wereuniversal truths. Please give us some insight what
constantly reminded to "Play by the rules" when youthese truths are.Roy: A couple hundred years ago
were involved in a game? It's interesting that TheGerman philosopher Immanuel Kant suggested that
Oxford American Writer's Thesaurus lists over fivewe live our life as if our every act were to become
dozen synonyms for "rule", all of which can apply ina Universal Law. If I may be so bold, I suggest that
one way or another to the daily activities of life. Anddoing so is impossible. There can be no new Universal
what about the granddaddy of rules, "The GoldenLaw or Universal Truths - there are certainly potential
Rule", that, unfortunately, not enough of us are willingnew perspectives on them, or perhaps different
to embrace?ways to present them, but the Laws (Truths)
Whether it be directive, order, act, law, decree,themselves are timeless and timely. So my
statute, canon, commandment, edict, ordinance orrecommendation would be that we live our life as if
injunction, there are plenty of "rules" that, at leastour every act conforms to, or is congruent with, a
nominally, are designed to provide guidance and aUniversal Law.For example, no matter where I go,
degree of order to our lives.All of the games wefrom Boise to Brazil, the Law of Attraction manifests
play, from the most chaotic "extreme sports", to theitself. It says simply that we will bring into our lives
more civilized games like chess, to the more "proper"people, circumstances and events that correspond to
sports of, say, polo and cricket, are governed, atour dominant way of thinking. We see evidence of
least in theory, by rules. But do you remember thethis all the time - have you noticed how negative
first time you declared, "Rules are meant to bepeople tend to attract to themselves other negative
broken?" And though all games have their dominantpeople? And we're all familiar with the "self-fulfilling
players, nobody wins all the time. Games, byprophecy." Now I'm not suggesting that a good
definition, will produce winners and losers, and theattitude, or "The Power of Positive Thinking", by
participants themselves determine which they willthemselves will give us the wherewithal to do
be.In life there are a multitude of rules, some ofanything, but they can help us do everything
which we may choose to follow, some of which webetter.Other Universal Truths we see manifest
may not. There is chaos and there is order. Thereeverywhere include the one Aristotle introduced in
are winners and there are losers. There is choice. In350B.C. Today it is referred to as the Law of Cause
other words, life is a game, and it's a whole lot moreand Effect - everything happens for a reason. Neither
fun when you're doing what it takes to win.Irene:winning nor losing - in the game of horseshoes, or in
Okay, so I'm a rebel at heart. I don't like "rules" sothe game of life, is determined by luck or coincidence.
yes, I do remember declaring "rules are meant to beAnother was paraphrased several years ago by
broken" and I still declare the same. (laugh) Whatpopular motivational speaker Zig Ziglar in his
words of wisdom to you have for me and all theinterpretation of The Law of Compensation. Zig put it
others that feel the same?Roy: There is a stop lightsimply this way, "You can have anything in life you
at the end of our street where it intersects with awant if you'll just help enough other people get what
four lane road, and directly opposite our light isthey want." The caveat, of course, being that selfish
another on the other side of the road. There isgain not be the motivation. Quid-pro-quid does not
probably a half-mile visibility in each direction on thecreate winners in the game of life.Irene: It's
four lane. I am Amazed (with a capital A) when Iinteresting to note Aristotle talked about Cause and
approach that light at 4:30 or 5:00 on the morning -Effect, yet 2500 years later we are still struggling
which happens frequently as I head toward thewith believing that everything happens for a reason.
airport - how often I will see a car sitting there,I'm seeing that in your own situation, if you didn't get
waiting for the light to turn green before making afired, this book would not have been written. I know
left hand turn, when there is not another vehiclethat we both can come up with my situations that
anywhere in sight. Making that left turn on red isprove the Law. Why is it so difficult for some people
against the traffic "rules" - sitting there under thoseto believe in this particular Universal Law and attribute
circumstances is to me, against the "rules" ofsituations to luck, bad luck, or coincidence?Roy: The
logic!The waiting-for-the-light-to-turn person I justbest definition of "luck" I've ever seen is "Luck is
cited also is violating what I would call the "rule" ofwhere preparation and opportunity intersect." My
common sense. I'm not saying he or she doesn'twife Bonnie wins a lot of contests and sweepstakes.
have any common sense. In fact, they probably haveFriends say to her, "You are so lucky. I never win
quite a bit, since they've obviously chosen not to useanything." Bonnie will frequently reply with,
much of it! So, Irene, for you and all your fellow"Do you ever enter these contests?" and invariably
rebels, I say, "Go for it!!"Irene: What inspired you tothe response will be, "No, 'cause I have such bad luck
write this book?Roy: In 1996 my first book, The- I never win." Bonnie and her friends both have the
Care and Keeping of Customers, was published. Itopportunity to win, but Bonnie prepares to win by
contains over 80 specific things that an organizationentering. And I sincerely believe that expectation
of any size or type can do to improve its relationshipplays a role as well. As Henry Ford said, "If you think
with its customers, both internal and external. It wasyou can, or if you think you can't, you're right."And
based upon the over twenty years of hands-on, realblaming negative situations on coincidence or bad luck
life customer service experiences I had up until then.is so much easier, not only because no work is
I had a message to share that might help otherrequired to prepare, but because it's so much easier
organizations and I wanted to share it.to "rationalize" failure. Do you see "rational lies" in that
Ten years later I realized that I had over fiveword?Irene: You encourage readers of "Never Beat
decades of real-life, hands-on experience in life, andthe Boss at Horseshoes" to take 100% responsibility
that I had a message to share that might help otherfor their own success. That's pretty humbling. How
people and I wanted to share it. Many years ago Ido you suggest we do that?Roy: Irene, it is very
committed to paper a statement of purpose for mysimple. Simple, but not easy! In fact, it can be one of
being on the planet..."to use my optimism andthe most daunting challenges we face in playing the
enthusiasm to teach and inspire others, so that thegame of life. Look carefully at the word
world of all those whose lives I touch, directly and"responsibility" - it almost looks like "response-ability",
indirectly, will be a better one". Never Beat the Bossor "respond-ability", doesn't it? Certainly we are not
at Horseshoes...102 Ways to Pitch Ringer after Ringerresponsible for everything that happens in our lives; I
in the Game of Life is a way to help me fulfill thatam no more responsible for being fired after that
purpose.Irene: Your statement of purpose is veryhorseshoe game than I am for the tides. But I am
dynamic. Tell us about the importance of having aresponsible for how I choose to view the event. In
statement of purpose.Roy: I remember the questionother words, we can't always control what happens
and answer section of the "Baltimore Catechism" thatin our lives, but we can control our response.Irene:
for years and years was used in parochial schools. ItIt's much easier to blame someone else if things
asked the question "What is your purpose in life?"aren't going how we had planned it and not be in
And I vividly remember the answer - "To know, love,touch with being responsible for our own feelings.
and serve God." That answer saw me through theAnd, sometimes the response gets us into more
formative years, though as I grew older I realizedtrouble. How do we change our attitude when one
that it wasn't enough. It remains for me a vitallyway of thinking has been ingrained for so long?Roy: I
important component of why I'm here, but it's nodefine attitude as how we see life from within and
longer nearly specific enough. Indeed, my feeling ishow we choose to respond.In our seminars, I
that "To know love, and serve God" would be afrequently ask participants to write the word
noble ambition for all six billion of us sharing thisattitude. No big deal, and they all accomplish the task
wonderful planet. But I also feel that we all have awithout comment. I then ask them to put their pen
specific purpose that is not universally shared. Othersin their other hand and write the word attitude -
may have a similar purpose, but our individual reasonWow, what a change in response! Some even say, "I
for being here is for us to discover.Irene: In whatcan't do it." When I ask why it was so much harder
ways could we bring our attention to really findingthe second time to write attitude, the universal
our purpose in life when sometimes we are scatteredresponse is "We've always done it this way", or,
or feel defeated?Roy: Discovering (or perhaps"We've never done it that way before."Now think
uncovering - it is there - we need only to find it) ourback to our earlier discussion of responsibility - that
purpose is one of the most meaningful activities inwe can't always control what happens in our lives,
which we can engage. It makes setting goals sobut we can control our response. Couple this with the
much easier - we need only ask if a proposed goal isdefinition of attitude as a choice, and we have an
congruent with our purpose. If so, it's probably aanswer to your question. Attitudes can change the
good goal.In The Power of Purpose, author Richard J.moment we realize that we can control our response
Leider makes this important observation, "Ourto every situation in our lives.Irene: M. Scott Peck
purpose starts with the acceptance of the basicwrote "Sometimes the only solution to a problem is
truth that who we are and what we do does makethat there is no solution." Our society is very solution
a difference." Once that truth is accepted, you canoriented and Peck's statement is hard to grasp. Mind
begin to identifying your purpose. Start by listing youryou, he wrote it many years ago. How do you
unique personal qualities. Are you......tolerant, patient,propose that we accept there just may not be a
courageous, kind, assertive, persuasive, committed,solution to the problem?Roy: The first chapter of
responsible, responsive, caring, creative, trusting,Never Beat the Boss... is entitled "Put It in
empathetic, intelligent, decisive, humorous, self-reliant,Perspective".Is the "problem" truly a "problem?" Many
knowledgeable, kind, persistent, dynamic, wise,people employ a concept known as re-labeling when
organized, honest, resourceful?This is not the time toevaluating a problem, and substitute another label.
be humble - list all your unique positive personal"Challenge", "situation", "concern" and "issue" are all
qualities. We call these the "I AM" words.Now list howwords that can help to mitigate certain dilemmas. I
you could express those unique positive personaldon't mean to sound Pollyanna - certainly there are
qualities. We call these the "I CAN" words. Canvery real problems we all face that no amount of
you......initiate, teach, help, show, support, develop,word-smithing is going to solve. Obviously a terminal
advise, plan, produce, lead, inspire, solve, persuade,illness is a challenge and a concern and an issue, but
create, establish, implement, organize, influence,above all, it is a very real problem.Several years ago
motivate, care, identify, communicate, guide,insurance guru A.L. Williams wrote a book called, All
promote, articulate, foster, visualize, manage, direct,You Can Do Is All You Can Do. There is genuine
encourage?Now take one or two or three "I AM"wisdom in that. There are times when we've
words and combine them with "I CAN" words toexhausted everything we can do to find a solution,
begin to develop your statement of purpose. I'veand yet the problem remains. This is when, with M.
already shared mine, and here is a couple more toScott Peck's observation in mind, we need to recall
use as examples:"My purpose in life is to demonstratemy earlier assertion that although we can't always
through example and teaching the way a responsiblecontrol what happens, we can control our
person should live and to influence all those I workresponse.Irene: You stress clear communication at all
with to emulate that example.""My purpose in life istimes. Sometimes we think we are communicating
to use my life's experiences and beliefs to help myclearly but the other person just doesn't seem to be
kids and their kids to become contributing, happy,on the same page as we are. Do you have any clear
positive people."Irene: You relate life to a game ofcut suggestions of how we can be sure the other
horseshoes. Why horseshoes and not baseball orperson hears what we are saying?Roy: In 1979, at
football?Roy: Great question, Irene. Horseshoes choseUCLA, Professor Albert Mehrabian published the
itself as my metaphor for the game of life! I startedresults of his landmark study in communication. It is
my business, Roy Lantz Seminars, in 1986 and in 1996still the benchmark for understanding how people
we signed an agreement to do international contractcommunicate, and it gives a clear insight into the
speaking for a Norwegian company with an Atlantaanswer to your question. He found that when we
office. In June of that year we had a company picnicare talking to another person, only 7% of what they
at the wonderful Stone Mountain Park, just outsidehear us say is our words. Fully 38% of what they
Atlanta. Everyone was having a great time, buthear is our tone of voice, and 55% of the message
occasionally I'd see a co-worker slink sullenly, orconveyed is our body language! In other words the
angrily, or confused (but never smiling) from the areaold saying, "It's not what you say, but how you say
of the horseshoe pits. Finally, I stopped one of themit", is more than just an old saying. You need only to
and asked him what was going on down there. Itrecall a childhood game of "Simon Says" to know this
seems that the boss, a tall, strapping Norwegian, wasis true.With that in mind, there are certain clear cut
badly beating all who dared take him on in a game ofthings we can do to facilitate true communication
horseshoes. And, even more infuriating, his attitude in(The best definition of communication I've ever seen,
victory was apparently not as gracious as it mightby the way, is "to give and get
have been.Now, I'm not the world's greatestunderstanding")...*always make eye
horseshoe player, but I'd been playing in my backcontact*paraphrase what you think you heard the
yard for twenty years, so I had a pretty good game.other person saying*use verbal support - "yes", "I
Hating to see my friends depressed, and, as aunderstand", Uh, huh", etc.*use non-verbal support -
former Marine, ever-cognizant of National Pride, Ithe slight nodding of the head, slightly leaning
decided to take the boss on. And take him on I did!forward, etc.*ask questions*use the "Echo" technique
Much to the delight of my co-workers, I handily beat- repeating the last word or phrase they
the boss at horseshoes. This was on a Saturday.Theused*maintain an open body position*observe their
following Friday he fired me! Now I don't know thatbody language as well - are they doing these
my unfortunate fall from grace was caused by thethings?Let me suggest, too, a great sales technique
horseshoe incident (though he was pretty upset...),that works in all one-on-one communication efforts -
but I do know that I had the perfect metaphor andWII-FM - What's in it for me? Imagine the other
title for my book!Irene: It sounds like getting firedperson is wearing an invisible head-set tuned to
was the best thing that could have happened to you.WII-FM. You must broadcast on that frequency - let
It gave you the opportunity to go forward in athem know why it's important to them to listen to
direction that may not have happened if you didn'tyou.Irene: Thank you so much for a very interesting
get fired - you may still have been "stuck" doing thediscussion. Is there anything else that you would like
same thing over and over again, expecting differentour readers to know about you, and your book?Roy:
results. Aside from getting "fired," what other waysThank you, Irene. This has been great! I really would
can a person redirect their course in life?Roy: One ofencourage your readers to visit for a couple of
the most powerful ways is to do the exercise wereasons. One is to experience the QUOTE-avation of
just discussed and begin to think in terms of theirthe day (That's a quotation that provides inspiration
purpose. Once a person begins to believe that theyand motivation - they must provide the perspiration!),
are here for a reason and then begins to identifyand the other is that there are a number of articles
that reason, it's like putting a rudder on a boat thatthere that may be of interest.
previously had no steering mechanism. Getting fired